Thanks to Arpit at AM Music Blog, for a brief period, "4:12" can be freely downloaded from here. So you might wanna direct your friends to that page while those 2 tracks are still freely available (and those are probably the best two tracks with which to introduce the album).

 

Congrats Phil on your best blog to date! Interesting, intelligent and intriguing!
Psst! Go to google, type in 4:12 and hit I'm Feeling Lucky

 

haha you almost posted it at 4:12 am. you missed it by a minute.

this whole "3 components of a person" reminds me of Plato's 3 parts of the soul.

 

Phil, I envy your brain...how the hell do you come up with this stuff?

Great job! You amaze us once again...

 

You know, there's an interesting dynamic between the body, soul, and spirit. Unfortunately, most of us live in the body and access only components of our soul, most definitely ignoring the spirit.

And that's why the word of God is important. It comes in and fills all the spaces, and works on the body, soul, and spirit all at once, making us even more human at the same time. Definitely a great blog, and good job researching all this stuff. And thanks for the linkage! :p

 

That was awesome! Nice job...4:12 is also one of my favorites, but I've yet to sit down and really look into the lyrics. I love the parallel to Hebrews 4:12...that makes sense. Awesome job.



Coralee

 

phil, ditto on the last two paragraphs, i'm feeling you on that.

4:12 was the first track to really hit me on the record. i fell in love w/it instantly.

and go do your homework.

says the drunk girl not doing her homework.

 

Thank you so much for this--I was thinking 4:12 could be in reference to a verse since I heard the song, and I started paging through and couldn't find anything relevant--I suppose I'd given up without realizing by the time I'd gotten to Hebrews and I wasn't really reading anymore.

Excellent blog. =]

 

brilliant

 

Thanks everyone for the positive feedback. I really appreciate it.

qomt, thats really interesting.

gellie, yup, i knew, if anyone, you'd be the one to notice that. haha. i think its significant that its 4:13 and not 4:12. *coughmetryingtopullajoncough*

true that, aprit. and you're welcome.

haha tyler, well, thankfully that didn't happen to me since all i did was google "bible 4:12 soul OR spirit OR body", and the 7th result on the very first page was my jackpot :D three cheers for google.

 

I feel like people are only trying to connect this song to a chapter 4 verse 12 part of the bible just because Switchfoot is a Christian band. 4:12 also happens to looks like a digital alarm clock. In my opinion thats all it means. The Bible is so diverse that you can find a connection to anything you want by selecting random verses. I don't know how many parts of the Bible have at least 4 chapters and 12 verses, but I guarantee you that it is enough to find a connection to almost any switchfoot song. Please stop over-analyzing the title of this song. Look at the context of the use of the phrase "4:12" He's been waking up at 4:12. It is pretty obvious thats the time on his alarm clock every time he can't sleep. There is not enough solid evidence to prove any connection to any 4:12 Bible verse. And, if you are going to connect it to a Bible verse look at the verses before and after it, please don't just take a sentence out an entire passage.

 

I definitely think you're going in the right direction. I also think you forgot that Jon often leaves up a song to personal trains on which we each ride. They are each individual. - You have been riding yours, obviously. I want to know specifically what Jon thinks is significant of 4:12, but knowing what he had in mind or not, we each have our own translation. While I just ranted about that, my opinion is pretty close to yours, maybe I didn't put as much thought to it as you did. I wouldn't have thought to reduce 4:13 as a ratio. Nerd.

 

I love that one of your labels says 'overanalyzing', Phil.

In response to Jonathan's comment, I checked every 4:12 in the Bible, and this is the only one that makes any sense. And this is a fan site if you didn't get it. Any piece of are has way too many dimensions of analysis. One of those will always be the artist's insight, and another will be the observer's.

My guess is you obviously haven't read that verse in context either. Otherwise you'd have made a point to clarify what that verse stood for. So perhaps instead of ranting on the use of a Bible verse, you might want to put in some worthwhile insight as to what you think that the song's about. If not, then why bother posting a comment?

Sorry, I have no patience for people that have no point :p

 

^ piece of art*

 

Man, that was too deep for my tired brain. I had to read it a few times before it sank in. I also love the song 4:12, and I think your analysis of it is very good, very insightful. I especially agree with you about the "temporary state" of spiritual breakthroughs. It's something I struggle with a lot - to get those moments of insights to last, instead of fading back into the mundanities of life. I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who feels that way... Again, nice analysis - I enjoyed it!

Jill

 

Hi Jonathan, thanks for your response, I equally appreciate negative feedback too. Its always better when atleast someone disagrees :)

That said, I never presumed my interpretation of the song to be the ultimate or correct interpretation. Like I said, "but at least thats what i take home."

These columns I write are essays rather than something authoritative or scientific. So it comes down to merely how well-argued your case is, and that's what I was going for. If there's bad argument in there, I'd love to have it pointed out to me.

Of all the different possibilities I dug up, the biblical one made most sense. And after the google search, I looked through 4:12's in the Bible to make sure, I even looked at the context, and realized I wasn't talking about the meaning of the verse at all, but merely the verse's clearly implied distinction between body, soul and spirit - and this seemed the most likely explanation - atleast it became how I understood the song, so I thought it might be interesting to share it with everyone.

And towards the end of what you said, did you mean the title has no particular reason for being 4:12, or were you referring to how 4:12 looks on a clock? I realize, it looks like this: < [the "less than" sign]

Could that be yet another train of thought that could reasonably be assumed to relate to the song's meaning? If that's what you suggested, then props, because its an interesting possibility.

Do ya'll think the guys go for these details on purpose, or they just come about randomly and we're overanalyzing?

peace,
phil

 

arpit, yup, i thought i'd call it just what it is: overanalyzing. :)

rose, I like that: "Jon often leaves up a song to personal trains on which we ride... you have been riding yours, obviously."

jill, haha yeah i know what you mean - it was relieving when I realized I wasn't the only one.

 

I don't think that searching through the Bible 4:12's is overanalyzing at all. I mean, there had to be some reason that Jon chose the number 4:12. We know that he always has deeper meanings behind his songs (the philosopher songs on NWTBH, T.S. Eliot's "Hollow Men" in MTL, the Descartes perspective in "Stars") and it's very possible he put this in for the dedicated fan to find. Besides, it's not like Phil pulled the idea out of thin air - one of the reviewers tried to make that connection too (and ended up with Acts 4:12, which made no sense.)

Of course, I'm sure that after all this Jon's just going to tell us that 4:12 just had the right number of beats.

 

Yeah, I think your argument was interesting, Phil. But, I'll have to politely disagree. You most definitely could be right. The number could be an allusion to another text that illuminates the theme of the immaterial soul. However, I choose to believe that the number has no such significance. 4:12 is simply the time when his meditations first "dawned" on him. And, as he wrote the song he decided to name it 4:12 because that's the moment when he began to realize what had been bothering him. That's my take. Thanks for yours, I wouldn't read this blog if I didn't enjoy it. It's nice to see thoughtful analytical interpretations of Switchfoot songs.

 

By what Ive seen on the Switchfootage 2 DVD the guys spend a whole lot of time focusing on certain details and make the songs all connect. Even the smallest things.

My opinion is, 4:12 was there for a reason. I dont know what Jon had in mind but I think he writes songs, gives a little explanation but he leaves the rest to the listener. That is why he says that Switchfoot's music is for thinking people.

My 2 cents.

Pip

 

Yeah, I don't know exactly what to say about the 4:12 bit, except, it must be significant, if only for the reason that they made the song that length. I mean, that part of it was deliberate. But what they were trying to say by it could be anything.

It could all just be for fun. Like, "hey, it's coming out at 3:58. haha, if we just added 14 more seconds, it would be 4 minutes and 12 seconds, just like the title. heh heh, that would be cool. we should do that. oooh, hey, if we added *15* seconds, it would come out to 4:13, and wouldn't that freak everyone out?!?! nah, let's just make it 4:12. you wanna go play a game o' pong?"

i'm just saying... :o)

it was fun reading your post, though, phil. i love following thought processes through like that. thanks for posting it.

 

thanks jonathan. i felt compelled to look beyond your explanation because the lyric says "he's been waking up at 4:12", which means he's been waking up every day at that time. and its not 4:15 or 4:00 or 4:30, but 4:12.

again, loving the feedback. thanks for reading.

 

personally, i found this super-enlightening... as much as i love to analyze SF songs, i've never managed to get quite THAT deep myself. :) fascinating stuff if ya ask me... as much as i loved the song before, my appreciation for it has definitely deepened. thanks :)

 

hah! all i can say is Amen! i knew from the very first time that i held on the new album and glanced at the titles on the back and saw 4:12, i thought this is gotta be an interesting song, probably from a verse in the Bible.

 

Gosh, the more I listen to Switchfoot and the more I study Scripture I notice how steeped in the Word these guys are. They are standing in a world that few Christians go and speaking life into it. I was having a conversation the other day about how much Scripture is interconnected and how different parts of it make other parts make so much more sense, and the same happens in Switchfoot's work. Oh! Gravity (the album) in general drips with so much truth and the more you ponder on it, the deeper and more interconnected it gets. They think like the Bible (if I can say that without being blasphemous!).

Thanks for your thoughts Phil!

 

i like the idea about hebrews 4:12 but i cant get the other possibilities out of my mind. 4:12 could be the time shown on his watch when he was writing this song, or it might be just a random number. it could also be something that ahs happened persoanlly to him like when he woke up some time at 4:12 am. but i guess the phrase about the sticks and bones gives the suggestion on hebrews an advantage. XD

hope we can get the real meaning. CHEERS!

my initial is MINIINIM. heh. i didnt get a google account so i have to post this under anonymous. XD

 

hey MINIINIM, you don't need a google account - just choose the "other" option and you can post with your name! :) but yeah, like I've admitted, I could be totally off, but the hebrews one just seems the most likely explanation, to me. Even if its not, I guess its what I personally take from the song - and each of us can interpret it our own way, as long as we're being honest. I remember Jon saying something like, the songs are meant to speak to different people depending on where they're at.

cheers ;)

 

wow i really enjoyed this take, i love the song but i've never thought into it in that way! this song keeps sticking with me in a wierd way, and a strange part of me thinks it's haunting me for a wake-up call, since i was listening to it a couple weeks ago when me van almsot slid off the road in a snow drift =\
but seriously, i really enjoyed your "overanalyzing" as it is something i looove to do! thanks for all the sweet stuff on your blog, phil, it's definitely good stuff.
oh and i also loved what rose said!!
- justine

 

its just so awesome how they put meanings so hiddenly in their songs! haha! this is what i call music!

rock on!

 

You know, I didn't like this song at first. On first hearing it, it seemed like a song that wants to shrug the material and concentrate only on the spiritual. I thought it was a major step back for Jon.

But after reading this entry and going back over the lyrics, I'm seeing it differently. I have to admit, I hadn't looked too closely. But I love the fact that he's called back from his moment of clarity by the ordinary. Those moments *are* only temporary. We can try to see the world with new eyes all the time, but that's not how it works. It's something that just sort of happens, all you can do is make yourself available to it. You close yourself off by thinking all there is is this ordinary, material life.

But the crazy thing is that even if you close yourself off, that moment will still reach you. Where just for a second you glimpse something more, and everything is okay, even amidst the ordinariness.

 

That was a very good analysis.
I probaly would have never thought of breaking down the number 4:12 and finding it's ratio.
I mean, i get the math aspect of it, but you tied it together so well.
I wish Switchfoot could confirm it, or deny it...whatever the case.
I know they wil be impressed.
I like that song too.

 

Hebrews 4:12 is my fav. verse and I never made that connection. I hope that's what Mr. Foreman intended it to mean, and not just something a spaghetti mess in your head made you conclude. I also love how you tried to post it at 4:12am. I am one in many who often thinks, "say whaat?!" when I hear some of Switchfoot 's songs, and I would hold your interpretation a lot closer to my heart if it was what the band said it was.

 

@Brinkmann
Just thought I'd make it clear that my interpretation is purely by independent thought, nothing official about it. I heard someone asked Jon about my post, and about what he thought the song meant, and his response was that what I wrote is great and he admired the thought I put into it, but he wouldn't go on record saying there's one interpretation, he maintained the usual "what does it mean to YOU?" I reckon, if I were in his place, I'd ask the same question, rather than easily give away what it means to me. To leave the song more open-ended achieves more artistic goals - as it speaks to people in more ways, because it then speaks to them where they're at, without limiting the song to one fixed meaning. So, while my interpretation may or may not be more than a spaghetti mess in my head, it's certainly what the song speaks to me from where I'm at.

Thanks for reading amigo.

 

You are an amazing interpreter good job.. "two thumbs up"
I like it when you found out about Hebrews 4:12. When I was reading your stuff I was already thinking of a verse but I dunno which book..

 

Hi, I'm a Switchfoot fan, and have been browsing your site today. I'm a Bible College student and I just had to respond to your commentary on the division of the Soul and Spirit.

In the study of Christian Anthropology it's important to keep in mind that the Old Testament, and ancient Hebrew thought as far as we know, establishes three parts of the personality: the body, the mind/heart (the idea of a person's personality and thoughts), and the soul/spirit (the spiritual aspect of a person). Furthermore, the New Testament, in any other verse other than this in Hebrews, uses the greek words for soul and spirit interchangeably.

What I'm getting at is this: Jewish anthropology, and every other verse in the New Testament, does not distinguish between a person's spirit and soul. From the whole of Scripture (again, other than this one verse), we get the idea that the two are identical, the same part of a person. So, it seems likely that, and this is the more common interpretation as I know it, this verse is emphasizing the sharpness of the Word of God. It's not intending to teach anthropology. It's trying to say that the Word of God is sharp enough to divide between two things that are inseperable. The soul and the spirit are inseperable, and yet the Word of God is sharp enough to divide it. The bone and marrow are inseperable, and yet the Word of God is sharp enough to divide it.

It's fair enough that the song may be pointing to that verse. But I wanted to clarify your interpretation of it, in light of the whole of Scripture.

 

Nice, there was talk of it correlating to scripture but i haven't seen anyone watch it with a particular verse yet. It's a very interesting song, as most fo Switchfoots songs are. I always have to take a while and get my head around the lyrics because they are so deep yet everyone sees them in their own way at the same time...

 

hey, your interpretation was very interesting.. but it almost seemed dualistic
so i was just wondering if you were a dualist? or if the members of switchfoot were dualists?
(i'm not, so i was just wondering)

and i really liked ken's interpretation of the scripture, i agree with him on what he said about the soul and spirit being inseparable

 

@ken
thanks for sharing. I certainly am no bible scholar (not even close), so that kind of input is really appreciated and gives further insight. it's something I guess I'll have to do more research on - about what you said regarding the soul and spirit being one and the same. i guess it depends on what is meant by "soul" - bible writers could have got 'soul' and 'spirit' confused at times, too, just like we do, because it's hard to see the two separately. what would you define "soul" as? i've heard it defined as consisting things like personality, character...mind/emotion stuff. if that's what it is, wouldn't you say the "spirit" is that which lies beyond that--to the non-conscious depths of who we are?

In the study of Christian Anthropology it's important to keep in mind that the Old Testament, and ancient Hebrew thought as far as we know, establishes three parts of the personality: the body, the mind/heart (the idea of a person's personality and thoughts), and the soul/spirit (the spiritual aspect of a person).

actually, "the mind/heart (the idea of a person's personality and thoughts)" is what I meant by "soul", and I've seen that usage of "soul" elsewhere too. So we're actually on the same page here, except that I called "soul" what you would call "the mind/heart", while for you 'soul' is the same as 'spirit'. I think our disagreement is merely semantic. But I would be very interested to know what the correct usage of "soul" is, if there is one. Whether 'soul' and 'spirit' being used interchangeably means 'soul' is just another word for 'spirit', or whether the writers were falling prey to the careless errors of the common language of those days.

one clarification though, (i think i already mentioned this, but) i'm not saying that my usage of the verse is NOT the interpretation of the verse in and of itself. the verse has a primary meaning - regarding the power of the word of God - that has nothing to do with 4:12. my usage of the verse in this context is limited ONLY to it's implication that the body, soul and spirit are disparate entities...something the verse, to me, reflected, only by way of implication i.e. by way of making another point - which, like you said, is about the power of word of God.

@katie
thanks for the comment. could you please clarify for me what you mean by "dualist"? (i've seen people mean different things by that term, so it's always good to get that out of the way before i try to answer) :)

 

Phil's a dualist alright... he's an Indian with a Jewish name :p

@ Ken - as I was reading through your response, I had some thoughts about the soul and the spirit, but Phil already covered them. As far as I've studied and understand the Bible, the distinctions are body, soul, and spirit: body = the physical, soul = the emotions (mind/heart), spirit = core being. But anyways, no point in beating a dead horse (although poking it is always fun!)

Btw, I just re-read the paragraph where you mentioned "new eyes", and I think I have the perfect MOTW :D

 

"This got me to put on my thinking cap."

I love it when you do this, because that means we get a new post to devour! :D

For me, not really knowing as much about the Bible and it's workings, the song means something completely differnet to me. I love it, but never really understood the, I guess christian aspect of it, although some of it is pretty clear.
Reading your thoughts was really interesting, although I feel that it wouldn't be proper to agree/disagree with you, ha, or possibly, that I can't!
What Rose said a long time ago, is what makes switchfoot songs so amazing for me, me being able to ride my own train.
I know they're christians in a band, and obviously, that's a significant part of the music they make. But, it's still universal enough that non-christians can enjoy it too.
I think in the beginning, when I started discovering them and their music, the whole christian ascpect of it was a little daunting. Everywhere I went, I saw references to their christianity, and how their songs represented that. But I think, as I started listening more, and thinking about what the songs meant to me personally, I came to realize that it didn't really matter that we didn't share the same religion, what mattered was that there was this one song that impacted both of us ( them and me) in some way.
Now, I think it's nice when I see posts like this, it's a fresh take on something I wouldn't have thought, and as someone said before, it's 'enlightening'
so thank you phil.
sorry for the rambling, I felt I needed to get that out.

 

what i meant by dualist is that you believe that the body is evil and the soul is good, i know that seems kind of vague but i don't want to go too in depth without rechecking my facts, so i'll probably relook it up in some of my notes and get back to you

as far as the body, soul, spirit thing: i think i'm going to look that up too because when i've talked about subjects like this we would always talk about just the body and soul, the mind would tie in with the body and emotions could probably be with both or just the body

so basically i have alot of things to look up! i just like to be sure when i say things. but thats okay because i like philosophy, looking for answers, talking things out and such, sooo i'll get back to you

 

I understand, katie. I'll be right here when you're back. ;)

I don't know if it's called dualism but I think I believe in the idea of original sin, which suggests that we're born with a sinful "flesh" - that is, the desires of our body are in opposition to what our spirit was intended to pursue. The Bible says when God created us it was all perfect but when Adam and Eve disobeyed God, sin entered our basic human nature ("flesh") as something you're born with. Now, that doesn't mean we're entirely bad, we're still created in the image of God, which means there's a lot of good in us, too. But the Bible teaches us to "die to the flesh" and to "walk in the spirit". In less religious terms, to not be driven by the desires of your flesh (not to be confused with 'heart') but to be driven by the things of God by staying in submission to the spirit of God.

In short, maybe this is what you mean by me being dualist: that I believe in the body/our basic nature being sinful, though I believe that wouldn't be the case if we weren't living by the desires of our bodies (includes the mind) and if we weren't living in a "fallen" environment. that's what I believe is the difference between "heaven" and earth - in heaven we wouldn't have our earthly bodies anymore and we'd be surrounded by the spirit of God (hence not having to *try* to walk in it) and would also be in a sinless environment... which is what would make it impossible to have sin/evil. I don't know if all that makes sense or sounds nutty, but there you go, that's what I believe.

I can't speak for the Switchfoot guys, but since they're Christians, I would guess they see it that way too.

@mukta
you're awesome.

 

Dualism is the belief that body and soul/spirit are completely separate. A dualist would also typically believe that the soul is much "higher" and "greater" than the body, and that physical activites such as eating dinner or walking the dog are less "spiritual" than say attending a church service or reading your Bible.

However, the Bible says that our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, and therefore, everything we do is spiritual. Being a garbage man is no less spiritual than being a pastor, if that's what God has called you to.

 

it's funny. i hated this song but you made me realize that theres so much i can get from it.

thank you.

elyse.
aka,
i like the no longer(from the sf boards)

 

hmm, I thought it might be after a bible verse...
very, very well said. ^^that was awesome to read.

 

WOW!!! that whole concept that you brought up was absolutley amazing... i loved that song (acctaully all the songs) since the cd came out... but that one i found really catchy (especailly the clapping part). my brother and a few other ppl i know waid.. yah taht song is pretty stupid... its pointless... it doesnt make sense... stuff like that. but i knew that it was basically calling the what u could call "theme" of the cd: material things (4:12, american dream, faust midas and myself, a few others). but i really did think that there would be something a bit deeper... so i loved every little thing you said and how u sort of added some suspense to it (u know u did... haha). but thanks for clearing that up... and ill be checking bak hopefully for more responses.

 

You know, this is one of those things where it seems too in depth and far fetched to be true, but the way it's explained and connected sounds too in depth to not be true. It's quite the juxtaposition. I always thought 4:12 was a simple reference to something Jon once said about 4 in the morning. He said it's an amazing time to be awake cause the world is quiet and there's just something poetic about it, but with the Bible verse explanation in the back of my mind, that seems much less plausible. I think maybe it was a reference to a bible verse...You've almost convinced me.
*wanders off to eat cookies*

 

Hmmm... it might be a verse, I just looked and found that a whole lot of very neat verses are in the 4th chapter and 12th verse of a lot of the books of the bible, I couldn't find any "chapter 4, verse 12" verses that fit the song. Maybe I didn't look hard enough. Or think hard enough, which happens often. ;)

 

phil, i must confess that i've read this more than once. i actually came across it somewhere and read it not knowing who the writer was until i came across the name.. OF COURSE! haha..


i love that you looked way deeper into this than i ever considered. you pose a great argument.. i don't think there's any coincadences in life at all, and who knows what goes on in jon's head, but i doubt he knew that this many parallels and theories could be pulled out of this song. i think that we can see God at work through Jon's words and through yours. in turn, perhaps, we can all feel compelled to dig deeper and to ask more questions such as the ones you've posed. if you did overanalyze, there's nothing bad about it at all.

so maybe jon just meant for 4:12 to be another number, but God had other plans in mind. or maybe these connections were intended, planned out. who knows. at any rate, it was certainly delightful to read this, i have a new respect for the song, without a doubt. keep writing and i'll keep reading, phil!

-tay

 

WOW!!! PHIL! that was amazing! i just saw it till now, and now i have a fuller knowledge of what the song means. i have never really understood it, so thank you! :D

 

maybe the recording ended at 4:12 and so they changed the time he woke up to 4:12 and made the title to 4:12.

 

hi, i would like to email you in private. can you send me an email address (ok if disposable, though i'm not a stalker or anything, just don't want my comments public)

 

oh, duh, guess you need to send that email address somewhere: mktjava-gd@yahoo.com. Thanks.